SPEAKER_02 0:03

And welcome to everyone to ITalk 1067 FM, the Voice of the Mountain, your hosting for so glad you're rolling with us today. I am really pleased to have Frank Antonori on the phone. And Frank Antonori is Coach Chief County Board of Supervisors. And uh Frank, how are you today?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

I'm good. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

All right. And a lot of you might be wondering why we're interviewing Frank Antonori from Coach Chief County Board of Supervisors. It's because as you've heard a lot of the stories and it's been in the paper, our boards of supervisors in Navajo and Apache County, they're kind of we have no authority, no authority, no authority. Well, we found that a lot of counties are putting, they've put in some ordinances, some protections for people against these giant renewables, the wind turbines, the solar fields, and all that kind of stuff. And that's how they do that, is with their ordinances and through planning and zoning. And but we basically have not uh haven't had any protections with everybody screaming and yelling and everything about these and our state lands. So I wanted to talk with Frank a little bit and pick your mind, Frank, about what kinds of things you guys have done. So what did you do in your recent ordinances to protect your residents?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

So I want I want to be uh clear so everybody understands there are state laws that preempt uh counties from prohibiting lawful businesses in the state of Arizona, and what we're talking about here is included in in those businesses. Um so the way that the statute is written, um you can't arbitrarily deny a permit. You will get you will get sued, and several cities have been sued already, uh including the city of Phoenix that got sued for $750 million for denying uh a permit. So you you you can't just arbitrarily deny permits. But what you can do under Title XI, which is the statute that gives uh the counties authority to regulate uh issues of local concern, uh, and again, uh county supervisors are a political subdivision of the legislature that have been powered, uh delegated authority by the legislature to conduct matters of of local concern uh at the local level to free up the legislature to do the statewide issues. So under Title XI, you do have the authority, but you have to do it in advance. Uh and that's a key thing if if if you talk to the lawyers, they'll tell you if someone buys the property and then afterwards you try to do an ordinance, uh you can't uh there's an ex post facto uh under Prop 207. Prop 207 was passed by the voters years ago. It's the the private it's the private property rights uh initiative that was put in the Constitution after the Kelo decision where the Supreme Court took that poor little old lady's house to build a shopping center up in like Maine. Right. Uh and they they they had that so Arizona passed the constitutional amendment that prohibited uh that in Arizona. So under Kelo, uh there are private property rights that everybody in the state has. And if a company comes in and buys a large parcel and says, I'm gonna put uh solar panels or or um uh windmills on this parcel, and then you come in and change the ordinances and the zoning after the fact, uh they will sue the Living Daylights audio. And so you got to do it in advance. So we saw here in Coaches County what was going on in the other counties, mostly in Penal County, actually, was where this was going on, and um decided let's get ahead of this before these large companies start coming in and buying large tracts of uh land or buying auction state trust land. Uh let's put in place a zoning uh we did a comprehensive plan that required uh certain zoning uh requirements as well as for their special use permits, certain requirements in the permits that they have that they have to meet uh before the permit is issued, and that is legal if you do it in advance and it's publicly noticed and the whole nine yards. And that's so that's what we did. So that's what we did. So we put some provisions in there uh basically to protect the residents of Coachese County because what we saw happen in Pinell County with a large-scale solar, uh they they built this, it was somewhat an experimental uh solar project. Uh they did not have adequate funding in their uh bond, their reclamation bonds. So if the company went bankrupt or abandoned the project, the county would not have sufficient funds and would be left holding the bag to do the cleanup uh and removal of this large-scale solar. Uh so we set up a special bond system that requires the money to be placed up front. We require an estimate. Um, that money is put in a separate account that is not controlled by the company that's requesting the permit, and that money is uh basically an escrow account, um, but it it's it's separate uh from the county and it's separate from the uh entity that's requesting the permit, and that money is held by the escrow company with the contractual stipulation that if the company fails, if they go bankrupt, if they abandon the project, or they can violate the terms of the permit, uh the county can uh take legal action to to call that bond and take that bond for the purposes of hiring an independent contractor to go remove uh whether it's solar or windmill. Oh, I love that. That's that's the way we did it here in Cochise County.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

That's very good. And what kind of reaction did you have after you passed changed those ordinances?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Um I was surprised that it was not uh you know, well, a lot of it was connected with with data centers too, because uh what the new model is to build large-scale solar and then park a data center next to it. So most of the attention went to the data centers, and a lot of people didn't pay much attention to the solar piece. Uh we also require pre- and post-testing, soil testing um of of the areas as well, because uh we we've heard about large oil leaks, because I guess these windmills use a significant amount of oil and lubrication. So so we required soil pre pre-installation soil testing for baseline, and then we require uh uh soil testing afterwards, and of course there's uh fines and and issues regarding taking the bond as well, uh, if they fail to meet those requirements, if they contaminate the the soil. Same thing with solar panels, if they do do that. So we we just recently had a solar company with that we issued a permit too, and part of their uh permit was that they were going to put a butyl liner down um under the solar panel so that in any contamination, if a solar panel were to crack uh something.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

It's caught is caught, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, it's caught by the butyl rubber and doesn't go into the ground. It also uh stops weeds from growing and stuff. I don't know if you know they did it up there. They used to put goats or sheep out there and their goats and sheep would start chewing on the wire so the solar pumps don't like they don't like doing they don't like doing or they jump up on the panel is another thing. So they they don't do that, they don't like doing that anymore. There was a lot of people that say, Yeah, let's allow grazing and do use and uh No, now they're fencing them all off, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't work 'cause the animals damage the the panels. Uh so they they've been putting uh again liners down to prevent weed and grass growth and then covering with uh gravel. Uh so then then if they when they fail or if they become obsolete or if if their efficiency drops to a level where they're not uh profitable anymore, they have to remove them.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

And they have to clean everything up and it's paid.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

They have to clean everything up and and and again, and we update the bond every five years. Um so it's not just the one-time bond and and it goes. Now that bond is in escrow and it does generate interest, uh, but interest usually isn't sufficient to keep pace with inflation. So we also put in the ordinance that every five years uh they're required to pay the difference. If it turns out that the uh cost of reclamation has gone up uh due to inflation, they have to make up the difference. If they don't make the difference and they have a short period of time, I can't recall off the top of my head, I think it's six months after we notice notice them that uh they need to put more money in the bond. Um if they don't, then we could take legal action, go to court to reclaim the bond, condemn the property, and then hire that independent contractor to remove the solar panels.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Um and and that's all part of the permitting process. So again, it was lessons learned uh because we saw other counties getting screwed uh by these uh solar companies that come in, they put a like you uh had mentioned earlier, the the bond is insufficient to cover the reclamation, and then they they or they don't have a bond at all, they they buy insurance, insurance money, and the insurance company doesn't pay, or yeah, or or the insurance company's fake or not very good, or whatever you want to call it. They're like a fly-by-night insurance company, and uh they go bankrupt and declare bankruptcy, and then the county's left holding the bag, which really means the taxpayers are left holding the bag.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

So they don't get remediated. That's why around the world only 12% have been remediated, which it really is really sad, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Well, and I spoke to some ranchers up north uh you know, along the I-40 corridor, uh where they've had these windmills, because I go elk hunting up there. I'm a I'm a hunter. So I've I met with a few of them when I was out elk hunting, and they'd they'd complained relentlessly about how they at first got talked into doing this, where they had leased you know, small little amounts of their land to put these uh windmills on, and they signed these contracts with these companies uh to put the windmills on, and sure enough, uh instead of repairing a windmill, uh, if a windmill goes bad for whatever reason and the cost of repair is significant, they just abandon it. Yeah, they don't even they don't even they don't even try to fix it, they just leave it. And the ranchers were trying to get them to come take these windmills down. And the company's like, nope, we're just gonna leave them. We're just gonna leave them, you know, tough cookies. And so I I'm like, oh that's that's that's not a really good way to do business. And and it develops and what's really so I was in the corporate world uh for over 21 years. I worked for a Fortune 100 company, and protecting our brand was like the utmost concern. I would never uh do this, uh unethical, in my uh opinion, behavior to it the company that I worked for because it would damage the image of the company. Why these companies do this is astonishing to me, but you know, it comes down to the point they just don't care. Well, they're in it for the short-term haul. Yeah. They grab they grab their stuff and go. So it's not like a standard American corporation where they've been in business for 50, 70, 80, 100 years, you know, and they want to protect the reputation of their company. These companies tend to be new, they're new startups, they're they're new venture capital companies.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah, they're mostly foreign. Most of ours, almost all of ours appear foreign. And they have said, the one outwardly said in a meeting recently said, yeah, we'll be here two years, and then then there's just nobody. The the the boards of supervisors aren't requiring anybody on the contract. So what's happening? There's not a managing company after the two years. And there's not a utility. There's not a utility signed up, and they don't have endurance from the grid. It's crazy stuff. So what we're finding up here with the $98 billion that we were sold out on in the last 15 minutes of the Big Beautiful build, what we're finding up here is that they can actually just build these and get the $98 billion. And they might if we if we do get a mini-nuclear, say we get it in eight to ten years out in uh St. John's, do you know that they could build these, they could use them for two years, and maybe that they never use them again, they bankrupt in the foreign companies and we're stuck with them?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah. And again, we saw that's the what it is is these venture capitalists um have a model where they put all this money up front to these developers uh that do these large-scale energy generation projects, and some of them are flaky. We had that happen in Coaches County, and Ms. Gomez will tell you, uh, she's the district two supervisor. They tried to do that in her district, but she caught them. Uh her and her constituents, it was a it was a fly-by-night European company that was working out of a hotel room and they had a P.O. box address, and they outed that uh so that we denied the permit uh because we could not uh and and there's uh there's a way you can do this under state law, that if the company does not provide sufficient evidence of them being a viable company and that there's a high risk that the project is uh either a scam or we're likely to fail, uh we can do that and they can sue us in court over that, and we were willing to go to court over that and say, okay, well, if you think we're f full of it and you're not a fly by night company, and we can't find any Dun and Brad Street ratings on you guys, we can't find any uh record of you existing in the last like four years, five years, and it sounds like a shell company that you know doesn't seem to be very reputable, and we aren't gonna give you the permit because we just don't trust you, we don't think you're real. Uh sue us and we'll go to court and we'll let a judge uh uh decide and they bailed. And that's what we wanted. Yeah, so they bailed. So so you have to have some diligence on it, and and I I get it, and I can understand the appeal because uh uh from a uh a poor county standpoint, like we are we have our our average uh income is twenty thousand dollars a year below the state average in Coaches County. Um so so we have a uh a very poor county, we're looking for jobs, you know, construction got jobs here are worth their weight in gold. Um, you know, so because we have tradesmen, carpenters, guys that do concrete, plumbing, electrical, you know, they're always looking for work, HVAC guys, right? So some of these opportunities are very uh good for the county for jobs. They're also great for property tax revenue. Um so there's a desire there. And if I if I can get property tax revenue from a commercial development, what that does is it it helps me reduce the residential property tax rate and the burden. So there is a there is a desire for counties, and it could be very uh, let's just say, desirable for uh certain supervisors um, you know, that are looking if your budget's tight, you you're trying to generate revenue, uh, and somebody comes in and says, Oh, hey, I'm gonna put in you know a $700 million project that's gonna generate four million a year in property taxes, you're like, oh, hey, that sounds great. You know, and you you could be drawn in, drawn into that, uh, but you have to do your due diligence.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah, and you have to protect yourself on those property because um what we did when we talked to the the thing about tow counties in um uh Oklahoma and Texas, they spent more money on lawsuits suing for their property taxes trying to get them after the couple two, three years and those foreign companies bankrupt. They spent more money in lawsuits and trying to get their property taxes than any property taxes they said they got. They were totally hosed, and they also didn't have the protections of the wind turbines. So now there's these and everybody within five miles of those wind turbines. And these are the smaller wind turbines, because those were the first um those are the first ones to get in. Um everyone within five miles of property values went down 50 percent. I wanted to um continue this conversation. We're gonna take a short break, everybody. We are talking to Frank and to Nori, and to Nori, right? Yeah, and to Nori and Code Chief County Board of Supervisors about what supervisors can do, what boards can do to protect some of their people, and help be good neighbors, help just just to have the solar companies and the wind providers be good neighbors to the rest of us. Well, people right here, if you're listening to iTalk 1067 FM the voice of the Foods. And welcome back, everyone. ITAC 1067 FM, the voice of the Mountain we're hosting for continue our conversation with Frank and Tonori. And Frank is uh Board of Supervisors with Coach East County. Frank, thank you so much for talking to us. And I'm really impressed with all of the things that you guys have done to kind of walk that line and be fair to these businesses, but also put in some protections for everybody so you know your lands won't be ruined. Um what other things are your thoughts as far as for us up in the White Mountains for those people that are just terrified right now with being covered up with wind turbines and solar fields?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah, again, um like I stated earlier, the best thing is to get ahead of it. And again, uh we did the the same thing with data centers. You know, uh we saw what was going on all over the state and we went through our ordinances and we didn't even have the word defined uh in our ordinances. What is a data center? So under our building codes and our permitting process, they could have came in and just said we're gonna build a data center here, and we couldn't stop them because uh there shall issue permits if they meet the environmental requirements, if they meet the building code requirements, you have to give them the permit under state law. So and that's what was happening with a lot of these data centers as well. So we created a whole ordinance just for data centers and we defined what the data center is, we put in the rules for water usage that they can't use groundwater for cooling, we put in, you know, they have to have all these setbacks, they have to be two miles away from uh residential zoned areas. We put we're trying to put them out away from houses as much as possible, um, because we've seen in other counties and other states these issues. So, you know, it's trying to balance again. We're trying to find that balance where uh we bring projects in, if they're a legitimate project, they'll they'll pay for it. They'll pay for these costs, they'll comply with what we're doing. If they're illegitimate, they just won't come here now because they realize that we know the scam and we know the jig is up and they don't even bother putting the permit. And that's what we wanted. We wanted to set up the permit process and to set up the regulations so that legitimate companies that are really interested about coming into Coaches County and making an investment uh are are are gonna be able to stay for more than two years and bail, uh, that they're here for a long-term investment, and it's gonna benefit the county, it's gonna benefit the business, and and that's what we try to set this up for. So if you put it all up in up front before they come in and buy the land and submit a permit, then you're good. It's the problem is if you wait until they buy the land and then put in the permit, you're limited by what you have on the books at the time.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

So that was the that was the key thing that we made sure that we built this process before we started getting and we saw it it's coming our way, we knew it was coming. We're saying, okay, they're coming down through Pennell County, they're coming into Pima County, they're coming here. May maybe not right now, maybe not this year, next year, the year after, but in a couple years they'll be here. Uh, these companies. So let's get ahead of this, let's lay the groundwork. And again, the the state requires that the conditions set at the local level be what is determined as reasonable. In other words, you can't develop an ordinance that like one in five thousand companies might be able to meet. You have to have it where it's a reasonable ordinance. The majority of companies that uh are requesting to do something can meet the requirements of that ordinance. So you can't do some arbitrary, crazy threshold that nobody's gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Right. So it has to be within that uh part of state law where you you can put for reasons of local concern is what it says. So for us, water, of course, is like the big local concern. So we put a lot of details in there regarding water usage. And we're allowed to do that. We're allowed to put restrictions on um, you know, to protect our aquifer. Uh so we say, hey, here's the rules that you have to follow. And so as long as they're up front and the company that comes in here before they buy the land, they're they do their due diligence and say, okay, Coachie's county has these rules. Can we meet these rules? And if they can't meet those rules, they don't buy the land. Yeah and they don't submit the permit. So that's the way we set it up, and so we can find that balance so we get the legitimate, reputable companies uh that are are gonna be a good partner with the county rather than be this fly by night, come in, wham, bang, two years, two years, and they're gone. Yeah, yeah, out the door, they're gone. So that's what we tried to get get ahead of.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

So so very smart, very smart. And I and I always and I think about what um Andy Biggs, I know, had been talking to some company. They were talking about something or other about um one of these AI centers, and he was saying, would you guys be willing to provide your own mini nuclear for your own power for the AI center, right? They said yes. Would you be willing to do reclamated, you know, doing their own water uh where they recycle, recycle, recycle. And they said yes. And so these companies can do some of these things where they're not and I I'm terrified for the Coconino aquifer, our aquifer, because it um you know, I'm already hearing about these big giant wells being put in and you know, they own the lands, they put those big giant wells, and and you know, I uh I don't know what ha and because we don't have anything built on them tearing them up and cleaning up after them, you know, and we hear these companies will say, well, we'll be here for two years, and there's nobody in the contract to continue managing them after that. And you know, with these big tumors across the land, it's just terrifying with all the zipperings and everything else. It's just uh it's just a sad as out of state. So you um the as far as uh putting these uh things into place and ordinances uh you know, you know, like I think about our counties, we might be out of luck uh for some of these projects that are already permitted and on their way, but maybe there's some you know emergency thing or s I'm hoping there'll be some b somebody to save us in Navajo and Apache. I really do. Something, somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah. Yeah, aga again uh sadly you guys are uh the canary in the coal mine that we saw, right? So we we saw this all over the state in the in the counties dealing with this And we're like, oh, look at what happened in Pinell County. Oh, look at what happened in uh you know one of these other uh counties up north like uh Coquinino County or or La Paz County, and we're like, hey, well let's protect ourselves here. And we got ahead of it before it got to the point where we were having that issue in Cochis County. So sadly your misfortune and other misfortune of other counties is what woke us up to realize this was going on. And sadly, sometimes that's what happens. Uh but but uh you know I'm sure uh you know, working with your your board of supervisors, uh I'm sure if you can get some protection in there for future projects, and again, as long as you do it before these companies acquire the land and submit the permit, the state law will allow you to a degree to regulate that. So there is still always still because the document we have is a living, breathing ordinance. We're we're gonna be updating it um as as we get input from constituents that say, hey, this isn't working, can you put this in? And while it won't apply to maybe this project that got the permit, a future project it will. So we can update that that process as we grow. And we just did all our building codes just look a couple weeks ago, too. So we added a whole new bunch of stuff in on the building code side, and everybody uh up until September 1st of this year that submits a permit still goes in under the oath. We can't stop anybody under the old building codes, but after September 1st, the new building codes kick in, and you know, if you submit a uh a permit, building permit to the county, you're gonna have to meet the new codes. So you you know, there is provisions in the law that allows you to do that. So you guys can still do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Uh yeah, the only problem is we've got to our board of supervisors and planning and zoning, they have to want to. And they've been promoting these for so long. I don't know if their backs up against the wall, but they don't want to. I mean, we have everybody's been begging for two, three years on the ordinance change, then we got the ordinance changes and got zero. They they they loosened everything for the companies. So I know we just have to wait till we can elect new people and we're we might be hosed. But because they haven't been on anything. And now what they're doing is call to the public, they're not even letting the they're not even listening now. They won't talk this when we have this week and nobody got to talk. They just said we don't have to, that's a a privilege and not a right. So all the people are super frustrated after this week. So it's just a sad situation. They because of uh you know, real AZ. And I know there's a couple of other counties in the state that had them promoted and all part of that. So I think the the whole thing is the hoax is in the whole deal is in uh up here. I've just said to them, hey, if we've been sold out, I said this is Andy Biggs and Eli Crane, I said if we've been sold down the river and we're a sacrificial lamb, right, with the big power where the power lines run and and we just have to you know suck it up and ignore this. But please tell us just tell us the truth and tell us where we can move, where can we go where we'll be safe? You know, maybe we're not living under these giant turbines. Where because is there a map? Is there a you know what I mean? And and it's it's a very everything is very quiet. We hear about everything after, you know. So it's a just it's just sad up here in the White Mountains right now. And I don't hear any buyer beware ads, you know, because people love the White Mountains. But hunters and ranchers have started to get really upset. They're like, what is going on? And so some people have started figuring out it's just sad because everything's been so quiet that now it's now it's out and i everybody's super upset, but I'm afraid it might be too late. But um so I so am uh you know thrilled that you are have some good protections in your part of the land and you're walking that tight rope.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Well, well, we're we're trying. Again, the law it does have significant limitations on counties to do things, all right. Again, we're a subdivision of state, so we we have to follow state law. And I when I got elected, uh well, I used to be a legislator, so I have the experience from being in the legislature that I think has helped me a lot here at the county level. So I know how the state works and I know a lot of the statutes and rules that are being in uh put in place by the state. So I realize that say, okay, look, what can we do under Title XI, which is our authority under state law, and what what what are the the laws, preemption laws that the state has in place for various projects? And let's find that balance uh to where we comply with state law, we we comply with the uh requirements at the county level, but we can still bring businesses into this county because we we're we're a poor county. Yeah, you know, just like we're very poor, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

And that's the thing too, but it sounds to me like you're listening to all your people. That's the cool thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

That's yeah, they're still sadly a pr very percentage. I call them the cave people, the committee against virtually everything. And and and they will oppose it no matter how well you think you're trying to put in protections, they're never enough. You know, they'll always be, you know, and they don't realize we cannot ban, we cannot prohibit, we cannot you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, we haven't asked we haven't asked that. We know you can't do that. You have you just have to, yeah. But it's like just uh to be uh just and just let us know. I would love transparency as well as it's not.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

You need you need a good attorney. Uh so we we we uh there's uh Snell and Wilmer in Phoenix has uh a law uh a team of lawyers, and I can't recall the name name of them, where they help provide you look local county attorneys just don't have the depth and understanding of these complex contracts and projects. So Snell and Wilmer is a great resource that your county can hire as outside counsel or be co-counsel with their county attorney to help develop some of this stuff because they know all the loopholes, they know all the getches, they know all Snell and Wilmer's been doing this for years. They're they're a good law firm out of Phoenix that's helped a lot with this stuff. So we we've hired outside counsel for a couple of these to advise us and our county attorney, and the board gets that legal advice to help draft these ordinances because it's got to be defendable in court. So it's got to meet that reasonable standard. So so they are experts at that. So it also helps you to find uh experts in environmental law, in contract law, in construction. So maybe they could help the residents here because the county is telling you they're they're a really good law firm and really good law firms aren't cheap.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

See, and that's the and that's the sad part is we again being two very poor counties, um, that's the sad part is the because the county isn't interested in changing the ordinances, right? Um it's it's kind of one of those deals where uh yeah, we we have no legal, no nothing. I think you don't but but the people the people are trying, and I just you know, I uh you know I I feel for them. A lot of them are trying and just saying, hey, just tell us, do we need to sell our land and run away or what do we need to do, you know?

SPEAKER_00 28:52

So well Janine, I'm sorry. I hope you guys you can do something. I I wish you guys the best of the luck. And uh you know, I'm sorry that you guys were the canary in the coal mine. Yeah that tipped everybody off.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

And I don't know if um if we also as far as the state lands go and some of uh that um and Katie Hobbs and what they're giving on state lands right now, what are your feelings on that? I just want to ask you about that quickly.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah, again, I'm not I'm not happy about it because um state trust land is supposed to be sold, and the way it's supposed to be done is it should be sold uh as the value goes up. So as cities grow uh and the population grows, the land department should be selling state trust land because what happens is the sale of that land goes into the education trust funds and the state trust trust fund and that gets invested and it generates revenue in perpetuity. Uh so once the land is gone, there's this account that's invested that generates revenue, and if it's done right and it's supposed to be done right, um that money goes to education and it lasts forever. And there's this big chunk of money that sits there. Uh the the legislature and the governor is starting to tap into the uh the the equity in that trust as well as the uh the base of that trust, which I don't like. Uh, you know, there's nothing wrong with taking the uh the the windfall from the investment, but going and touching the actual money that generates that windfall is is a problem for me. And these these leases, these long-term leases, most leases in Arizona are 10 years. If you like you talk to your ranchers, they do 10 year 10-year leases. The governor and the land department now are offering 30-year leases to solar companies.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

To solar companies, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yeah, yeah, and they've got a map of all these ideal parcels that they want to start putting out there for leasing the solar, and the land department gets the money. So they get the money for the lease, and the local governments and the local school districts and and the local uh hospital districts, fire districts get nothing because state trust land is not taxable until it's sold to private owners. So as long as the state holds it, that we get no local property tax revenue. So our board of supervisors, uh, we sent a letter to the land department opposing long-term leases specifically for solar and said that if they want the land, make them buy it. Make them buy it, make it go to auction like it's supposed to, in accordance with the Enabling Act, which is the controlling statutory federal statutory authority uh for the purpose of selling land, make them bid on it and then let them go to town with all these other uh developers and entities that want to buy that land for other purposes.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

And there's a lot of state land that is inside municipalities too, and they it could be used for housing and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

I know Andy Andy is in very favorable of doing that because it also lowers housing prices and creates more affordable housing. So so this has my been my beef with the land department. They've never been wanted to sell uh land. They always find these go-arounds, uh you know, which I think violate state law and federal law, the Enabling Act, which is a federal law, that that they they play these games and and it's it's it's unfortunate. So we're we're against that. We we let the governor know, and again, I've talked with uh Congressman Biggs, future Governor Biggs, that when he becomes governor, that we start selling the state trust lands because we've we got uh just under eleven million acres in the enabling act, and over the last hundred and twenty years we've only sold roughly a million and a half acres. Yeah. You know, and and some state trust land is not sellable. They're on the sides of mountains and some of it is very pristine area, and I get it, we don't want to sell that and go. Great ranch lands and stuff like that, yeah. So that and ranchers should be able to buy state trust land too. So if you have a rancher that wants to expand his ranch, yeah, um uh you know, he could he could start the process of buying that land. Um, you know, and so we're not doing that. And once that land is sold, it gets on the tax rolls. And local local property uh taxes go to schools, they go to fire districts, hospital dishes in rural counties, right? Because that's what we have in rural counties. You know, we don't have the apparatus of these large like Pima and Maricopa County and now Panal County have, right? So we we need that local tax revenue to to to to reduce the burden on our residential property taxpayers, but at the same time provide funding for the services that those taxpayers are asking for. And that's that's the balance that you're trying to get. And it's a challenge, and uh that's why you know a lot of people don't run for county supervisor.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Well, darn it. If you could if you ever think about moving up here and we could elect you, that would be really nice. But I know you've got your handfuls full down there. Or if you know of somebody, if you know of somebody good, send them our way.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

All right, Frank, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Been a pleasure talking to you, a lot of great information. Frank and Torini uh down coaching. Frank Antonori, sorry. Sounds like an Italian name, right? Italian name. Yeah, I am too. I should be able to say it. Okay. All right, Frank, thank you so much. You have an awesome, awesome day. Okay, bye-bye. Everybody keep it right here. ITalk 1067 FM, the voice of the mountain.