SPEAKER_01 0:00

And you're listening to iTalk 1067 FM, the voice of the mountain. I'm your host Jenny Ford. And I'm really happy to have a gentleman. His name is Dan Baker. Dan, how are you this afternoon?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

I'm doing great. How about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Doing great. Okay. Well, Dan, tell us a little bit about your background. Um, because you have big concerns over chemicals and possible contamination uh by a lot of these renewables. And so tell us about a little bit about your background.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Well my background was I've done uh federal accounts, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, um remediation for lead abatement.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

So go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

You know, if you have X amount, that house could be contaminated and kids are including adults, it has long-term effects, you know?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Right, right. And so what made you start to become concerned about, and let's talk a little bit about well, let's start in the basics. On a so solar panels, what do they have in them? What kind of chemicals?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Well, I can verify to have 12 to 15 grams, bearing on which model uh of lead, and that's 18 to 22 grams of cadmium per panel covered with PFOS. So the silicone that covers it is PFOS.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

So what are some of the uh the so these chemicals? Uh how bad are these these chemicals for those of us who know nothing about those chemicals?

SPEAKER_02 1:31

You know your your average range, say I have 500 panels probably not gonna do much to the environment. Where does the threshold start to break where it's destroying the environment? Is it 5,000? Is it 50,000, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Right, right. And cadmium, what is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Cadmium is uh highly toxic, very cancerous, uh basically chemical uh that that we're re we're introducing in areas that probably doesn't have that saturated level.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Okay, so so looking at these big solar farms and big old wind turbines, you know, and all the junk that comes along with them, what um what you basically um have asked of different counties is to do a to do a baseline soil test, right? That would seem that would seem like a no-brainer to me to test the soil at the beginning and then test the soil at the end and make sure you leave it the way you found it, right? That seems like a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

The the problem here is um so spontaneous glass breaks, some of the the panels spontaneously crack. Should it be it's too hot, too cold, it went too fast that some way. And that will introduce the toxins into the environment.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Into the environment. Possibly the air, the soil. Now we heard where hail, a hate big old hail storm, came through that one giant one in Texas, and they're saying that that dirt, I mean, it's gonna be like brown earth for like a hundred years or something, or maybe forever, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:15

I'm guessing, and I guess uh because we don't have data analytics, that would be nice. Um and that would but what we see now, similar to to a few data centers, if we don't have the baseline, there's nothing to go by. There's no guidance, there's no you don't know what's there. So say I'm a developer, I'll say, hey, that was already there.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Okay, so in Navajo County, let's say, in Apache County, are they requiring baseline soil testing?

SPEAKER_02 3:48

That's not what I gathered through the information of calling them. And so I do this across the U.S. call counties and state regulators and EPA. Um what I can say, I'm amazed we don't have baseline. What I do have data analytics of baseline testing, it doesn't look good. I think I sent you the leach the leaching factor of the years within 15 years, how much of the panel has leached?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it so how can we protect ourselves? What do we need to demand from our county like Navajo? And and I want to ask you too. You tried to call and ask some questions at Navajo County. What kind of response did you get? And you don't have to name names, but what kind of response did you get?

SPEAKER_02 4:43

What I'm gonna say is so I I speak across there's there's counties that actually care about their constituents and give the time and will want to give that information out. Right. It's a shame in one certain counties I have to do FOIA requests and open records request to get that information that should already be information for the community.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Right. So they so they didn't just say this is your answer. But we know that they haven't they're not requiring the baseline beginning soil testing the ending. And why is the beginning, the beginning is so important, right? Because in the end they can say, ah, it was always like this, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yep, yep.

unknown 5:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yeah, I why it's important is because then you know the levels right now. And we're introducing let's say some of these projects have a hundred thousand panels. That's bad. I mean, w where where do you know later after they take it out, you can never get the soil the same way.

unknown 5:51

Right?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

And I think Frito Lays will not grow any potatoes near any of those those facilities just for that reason.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

See, and that that's what you have to realize, folks, is that they all look neat and clean and self-contained, but there's tons of chemicals and cancer-causing chemicals. And then we hear, this is the other side note, we are in high, high fire danger area, okay? And the scariest part, and I brought this to their attention and asked questions, you know, the scariest thing is we don't have hazmat with our fire crews. We don't have enough fire crews to be covering if what some of these things go up in flames like the battery centers or whatever else, and you can't throw water on them because then all the chemicals go right into your water supply. But my question is if they're catching fire like the battery fields, what kind of chemicals are we breathing in, you know?

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Oh god, the flight calls.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Okay, we are we have a big old static thing here. I'm gonna ask can you call me back? Okay, thank you so much. All right, we'll be right back, everyone. I talked 1067 FM, the voice of the mountain. And welcome back, everyone. We got uh rid of our static thing there. We've got Dan Baker on the phone. We'll continue our conversation about the environment and the environmental concerns with these giant solar fields with all the chemicals and the wind turbines. And um you said too, you know, we were talking about uh fighting them in a firefighter kind of thing. They say they can't throw water out, we don't have hazmat, but there's hazardous materials that are a problem all along, and that has to do with cooling these things, correct?

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

And tell me about that. Is glyconol kind of like a antifreeze?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

I'm not the best expert out of uh environmental testing USA.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

But I can say, yeah, it it needs something to cool it down. It's it's you know, it's kind of like a radiator of a car.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Right. And so they use some of this glyconol to to cool these things down. Yep. And so some of that goes into the water supply.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Well, once you flush it and you need clean, you what that's what I've been asking every community, and then most of them like 9999 don't even know, oh really, that that's in there.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Well, and and and this is my confusion. We have the EPA, right? Is the EPA uh like you said, there's all this pre-soil testing and all these tests done on residential, but not on industrial. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Okay, that is just creepy. Why would that be?

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Uh my my personal opinion, money talks.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Oh, gotcha. Yeah. So you know so with the locals and they're figuring it's so far out there, it's so far away. We have the precious Coconino aquifer that sits under our entire area, and like they've tried to like when they're talking about these massive wind turbines all across Apache County, there are springs Dan all through there. We have springs that come up. We have people that have wells at 60 feet, okay? So you can't tell me that the four to five thousand tons of rusting rebar steel and crap under each one of these wind turbines is not going to affect our Coconuto aquifer. And now looking at these solar fields with the sixteen kinds of chemicals and stuff they have, and if one breaks, uh that our aquifer becomes toxic, I mean, it it's really, really scary. So uh uh so you're saying that right now our county, Navajo, and Navajo and we know Apache, they don't have all this heavy, heavy testing. And to protect us, they need to have this testing, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:46

So what they'll say is the state does it and then the state will say EPA does it.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

And then nobody does it. Nope. And they don't tell anybody. And see, the thing is is that, you know, as the cancers evolve and all the things evolve, you know, this goes to and I've said this so many times, Dan, is a hundred years from now when somebody comes through this area and they see the giant turbines and they see all the mess that's left behind because they haven't been remediated, right? And people think remediation it's dug out of the ground, but now I've got new concerns with, you know, what I'm hearing about all these chemicals. How long does it take those to go away, you know, after you've contaminated the soil? And ranchers that think it's okay to ranch their cattle all around these things and under them.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

See, here's the problem. The ranchers can't have ten thousand tons of glycol there, but these facilities can. And it's against I'm pretty sure codes and they get fined heavily by the county. When it comes to corporations, we just tend to look the other way.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Because it's big, big, big money. And then the other scary level to this is most of these are foreign companies that are putting these all in.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

That's oh it's not really as big money as you think. Because if it was big money, you wouldn't need subsidies.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Right, right. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

It's just it's just our uh somehow, and like I I think I sent you where I've got NGOs fighting against me now, and they've got they're handsomely paid. This nonprofit I'm with is a public nonprofit. Everybody listening, this, every U.S. citizen owns it. You know? Yeah, and what's not here for citizens.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah, and what is your what is what is your nonprofit? How can people find out more information on this?

SPEAKER_02 11:32

We're uh et USA.org. ET, like ET phone home, environmental testing USA. We are forefront and pioneering baseline testing for NIH to be the first to bring in these industrial data centers, anything industrial should have a baseline testing. When we're basically I'm a citizen, I'm building a house, they're gonna make us jump through hoops. What I see where it says on applications, does it have hazardous chemicals? These developers have a choice of yes or no. And I just had I'm not gonna say who, but they just retracted an application and bought the second biggest developer two days ago.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Ooh, really? Because they realized, uh oh, wait a minute. And they even said everything I said is taxes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

And then they even said this. We don't have data after 23 years.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Oh yeah. No, that's I do you know what? You just hit something on the everything I ask about. We don't have data. I love like with with uh now the realtors kind of kicked in and they said, wait a second, all these things, yeah, people don't want to live under all these things, right? Well, we're talking about this, and they go, Well, uh, we don't have data that it you're gonna your land value is gonna plummet. We have no data. And I said, Where are you looking? And they're looking in our immediate area. I said, Okay, guys, guys, this is 50-year-old technology. You need to be looking in Oklahoma and Texas, okay, where the land value is plummeted 50%. But oh well, we don't have any data. And then a lot of the data skewed through the environmentalists, you know what I mean? It's just it's really creepy. A lot of it's creepy, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah, it's uh the best way I can put it, I wrote a book. It's called Americans Chernobyl. And because of what I said, my thesis is now a reality. I called it three, four years ago of how they didn't have these. It took me three years of working this of foyer requests, open records. We're talking an obscene amount of time. You know? So amazed because now I know the truth. And people should know the truth too.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

See, that's the sad part, is that we want to have all the information. We want to study and we want to learn. So you wrote the book, American Chernobyl, and again, your the the s the the what your nonprofit is, it's an it's E T-USA.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yes.org.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

E T Usa.org. That is E T USA.org, and it's Dan Baker, and you've got a lot of great articles. And um you you've looked at certain areas of what's happened to them, and that one article you sent me with the Moss, is it the Mossy Creek?

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Yeah, the Moss Landing.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah, the Moss Landing. It in a nutshell to tell our listeners what happened there.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Well, that's a chain of uh consultants, so I've dealt with thousands of consultants and lawyers of um of the renewables or the corporations. And they'll even they've told me I wouldn't be here without subsidies.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

So they all the the dozens of dozens and do some of the biggest. Not gonna say who. Yeah. But they know it, I know it, and they even agree with me. Where we should have 'em is maybe Brownsfields, because it's already ruined. But how far will that trap you know, the PFAS? Every panel's covered with PFAS. How far will that go along you said it? I mean the water line.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah, yeah. And that that's the sad thing is uh we didn't realize how t you know, so many normal people just don't realize how toxic these are, you know, and and that's a sad thing. It's all uh these toxins, but it's big money, so they try to flood in here. Can I ask you now, so why wouldn't local boards of supervisors want all of this testing? Why don't they want it?

SPEAKER_02 15:48

This is what I know w okay, say you own the business, would you want proof to show liability?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Oh, I see what you're saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

And yeah, so in a nutshell, the world is a business. And in the business, you're gonna take away that money.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Gotcha. And so if they say, We didn't know, it's not our place, we had no idea if they do 2% of a third party like us who's not vested in here with corporations, we're here for the truth. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Okay, so yeah, uh again, uh we're in the National Science Foundation, there is no data analytics of these toxins because there's never been a test. But I can tell you in there, because we we're the first to do this actual application, okay?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Across the US. There's several sectors, and it actually reaches to your area. If one of these go in. But we have the study for fish and that fish. Is it a trans fish? Is it a does this make sense? But we don't have study for chemicals that's killing the citizens that's paying for the subsidies that pay for it all. Wow. It's weird. Or monkeys, how they do cocaine. This stuff is wild.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

We have all these tests, but we're not testing, yeah. And and but we know cocaine and monkeys.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Let's let's have a study on that. But we don't have realism study. It's like children are running the country and has been for 50 years.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

And and the thing that's sad is that all of these chemicals we know individually, like you say, caddium, cadmium, is that how you say it? That that that causes cancer. So if you and and you have these other and all the lead, the tons of lead you're saying is in them. So if those things get into our water supply. Um now, and I understand that some of these places, some of these solar fields have a gigantic seal they can put under them. It's extremely pricey, but there are l some layer extra layers of protection.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

But it's Oh, so you're gonna put a big PFOS rubber membrane underneath it, miles and miles of a square meter.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, something. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just kind of reaching out.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Oh, trust me, I've had these conversations with the biggest developers. Oh have you. And they always come up with, look at his sheep and they're eating right next to it. I'm like, do you know it's still leeching? See, a spontaneous glass break as a custom builder. I can't see it.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah. And and the sad thing is that if your wildlife is coming up, you know, close to these, around the fenced areas, and you want to graze under the turbines, you know, and it's it you know, it's just it's super scary. We're gonna have to start to have labels on our meats and different things that if you've been grazing in an area with all these chemicals, that yeah, we want to buy our meat somewhere else. I don't know. It's just scary.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

We won't know. Here's the problem. So labs, NGOs can easily be bought and out, I see. Yeah, so So what happens when that bought in out lab, bought in out NGO, is saying, This is great stuff right here. Look, there's nothing. Uh just like Moss Landing.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Oh wow, yeah. Okay. So, so what do we need to do as citizens? What what can we do to help prevent this? What do we need to be doing right now?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

It is a crime and a heavy crime for leaders to not care and bring in development. That's their job. That's what I told somebody up there. This is your job. You're supposed to keep your constituents, your community safe, and then I got hung up on.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

You got hung uh hung up on twice from Navajo County, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah. It's it's a 50-50. There's some communities that truly, genuinely care, and they they get down to the source, and then suddenly so they'll retract all these subsidies off of their thing, and now all of a sudden their electric bills aren't going up.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, yeah, it's so sad. The sickest thing, too, is that we, through these subsidies, we are paying for all of this trash to trash our lands, you know? It's really, it's lovely. So, um, Dan, what can we be doing? Should we be writing our like warning our boards of supervisors, standing up and saying, It, you know, hey, you've been warned we need baseline soil testing, we need to know where we're at, we need protection, and you've been warned that.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

What we do is once communities are finally pissed off, we start doing foyas, we start opening up uh a Pandora's box. And once the legality ends, first off, if there's no baseline testing, they done drop the ball. You see that part?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Citizens Right to No Act trumps any state, trumps any county laws and rules and regulations. I don't know if you know that.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Okay, there we go. Well, Dan, can I can I tell you? Yes, you've we've got a lot of upset people up here. I I have hundreds of them on my radio show. They've tried citizens' ordinances, I mean they've been pleading, begging, uh, you know, we have lots of that. So, um, can you put us on your docket?

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Absolutely. We would love to get involved. And A, I went on the panel count and I can tell you how much toxins and you know, weight-wise is in your community.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Right. And how much is coming, what they've just approved, you know, up there, you know, and all the big, big, big ones that they've just approved also recently in the last six months.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

The one down south of you, uh, they have over a hundred thousand tons of lead. Tons.

unknown 21:56

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Two hundred thousand tons of cad. And once you start talking these numbers, this is why they can't give me a panel time, because then I'll know to the tons.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

How many chemicals will be in our area? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Well what the possi that's a a weight. That's an obscene amount of weight and to not have a baseline testing when I'm talking a hundred thousand ton.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

And not one test.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, no testing.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Make it make sense.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Wow. Yeah, exactly. Make it make sense. Dan Baker, this is fascinating, and uh I would love for you to touch base and let me know what's going on, okay? In your five can you can can you call me or text me and let me know, hey, I want to come on again, let's talk about this. Does that sound good?

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Yeah, I would want to further it where the leaders there work for you guys. Remember that part. You can vote them out, especially if they're doing corruption. Holy cow.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

That's I shouldn't have to FOIA request something that's you know, uh just public knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah, just let us know what our count is that's coming to uh area with all the chemicals, exactly, and why we're not doing the baseline testing. That's what I want to know.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Maybe So down south we did put the baseline testing in our comprehensive plan, which makes sense up there.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, yeah. That would be great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

So for twenty-five years here, which there's still, you know, we we did get one place to a to to I think next year we have our first baseline testing happening in the United States. I commend a developer for being up front and going right.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah, yeah. That'd be what a thought. Yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Yeah, so there's a lot of there is developers that want to show that, hey, we mean good, and they they probably genuinely don't know. Because the lady I know that was head of it didn't know what I was talking about.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Right, right. And and it's all about education. But the the big thing for me is if you're telling people, hey, FOIA's or whatever else, and and you're not being it's a lack of transparency. When there's a lack of transparency and they will not tell you and they will not talk about it, you know, that's where, you know, you know, probably some. And then they hang up on you. Yeah, but then bad things are happening.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

And that hardly have I'd say 20% out of thousands of calls, I hardly get hung up on.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

So you were hung up on twice from Navajo. But that happens to be your jurisdiction. So you're that's telling you right now kind of where we're at in these counties. Yeah. And I will tell you that Navajo flows with Apache up here, big time. They're all it's all the same thing because they've been uh front loading this for years with the renewables, heavy, heavy through a group called Real AZ. You know, so um Which is a nonprofit, right? Well, it was, and then yes, yes, exactly. So okay, Dan Baker, thank you so much. We're out of time for today, but it's etusa.org. ETUSA.org. And Dan, keep me posted on what's going on across.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Don't be afraid to email, let us know. Um by law, if you live near any industrial facility, there should be a baseline testing, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Right, right. That's all that's not it's not too much to ask. Okay. ETUS.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

That's crazy. Just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

ETUS.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Appreciate your time and having me on.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Dan, thank you so much, and thank you for fighting the good fight, okay?

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Likewise, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

All right, thank you so much. Dan Baker, he wrote the book American Chernobyl, and you can find out more information. ETUSA.org. That's etusa.org. Dan, thank you so much. All right, keep it right here, everyone. I talk 101 106.7 FM, the voice of the mountain.